My suggestion is to just kick the noob in the rear and tell him to never open his mouth again.
:lol::lol::lol:
There may be hope for you Tanner.
My suggestion is to just kick the noob in the rear and tell him to never open his mouth again.
but ignorance of the law is no excuse
Mr. H,
First, please allow me to apologize for the delay in response to your inquiry.
I do recall your recent email regarding SB757. At that time, the email was forwarded to the County Administrator, Barry Clark and the County Attorney for review.
I just spoke with Mr. Clark regarding SB757. It is my understanding that the County Code will need to be revised to reflect the recently approved State legislation regarding the shooting of pneumatic firearms.
This is a County Code reference, which is updated through the County Administration office. If you have any additional questions or concerns, do not hesitate to contact the County Administration Office at (434) 985-5201.
However, if I can be of further assistance please let me know.
Bart J. Svoboda
Planning Director
County of Greene, Virginia
(434) 985-5282
Are they saying that all their county ordinances are just "declared into existence" by the County Administrator? Is that legal?
I kind of let this slide as I had other issues to deal with but finally.This is a County Code reference, which is updated through the County Administration office.
Are they saying that all their county ordinances are just "declared into existence" by the County Administrator? Is that legal?
TFred
Are they saying that all their county ordinances are just "declared into existence" by the County Administrator? Is that legal?
TFred
TFred-
It appears Mr. Svoboda was just being helpful by suggesting future county ordinance queries be directed to the County Administrator when he wrote: "This is a County Code reference, which is updated through the County Administration office. "
Mr. Svoboda is the Planning Director, and deals with zoning and growth issues. I know the man, he's good people.
Marco,
Thanks for discovering this discrepancy. We will need to follow our attorney's advice and the public hearing rules, but we are working on this update.
Jim Frydl
The wife thinks I should run for a vacant seat next time around... I don't think they (politicians etc) are ready for someone like me to be that involved....
besides the shorts and sandals might turn folks off
IMHO, you're best bet is to contact the attorney for the locality and politely inform them of the ordinance that is invalid, providing reference to 15.2-915.I'm willing to contact my home town of Altavista, whose code states:
Sec. 50-4. - Acts prohibited in town parks.
(a)
It shall be unlawful for any person to commit or attempt to commit any of the following acts while on the premises of Shreve Park, Staunton Riverboat Park and all other parks in the town: archery, climbing on waterwheel or wading in the fountain (in Shreve Park), damaging signs, equipment or facilities, golf practice, possession of firearms of any type....
As it happens, I'll be visiting their parks next weekend. I know this may seem paranoid, but Virginia 15.2.915 makes the above ordinance invalid, correct?
Would it be of help to have a copy of the VA statute in case I'm confronted by an LEO?
Thanks,
Dave
I'm willing to contact my home town of Altavista, whose code states:
Sec. 50-4. - Acts prohibited in town parks.
(a)
It shall be unlawful for any person to commit or attempt to commit any of the following acts while on the premises of Shreve Park, Staunton Riverboat Park and all other parks in the town: archery, climbing on waterwheel or wading in the fountain (in Shreve Park), damaging signs, equipment or facilities, golf practice, possession of firearms of any type....
As it happens, I'll be visiting their parks next weekend. I know this may seem paranoid, but Virginia 15.2.915 makes the above ordinance invalid, correct?
Would it be of help to have a copy of the VA statute in case I'm confronted by an LEO?
Thanks,
Dave
http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=13455
Sec. 50-4. - Acts prohibited in town parks.
(a)
It shall be unlawful for any person to commit or attempt to commit any of the following acts while on the premises of Shreve Park, Staunton Riverboat Park and all other parks in the town: archery, climbing on waterwheel or wading in the fountain (in Shreve Park), damaging signs, equipment or facilities, golf practice, possession of firearms of any type, horseback riding, littering, use of motorized vehicles of any type except on paved roadways and parking lots, rock throwing, yelling obscenities and/or profane or vulgar language, or playing radios, phonographs, tape players, CD players or other mechanical devices at a level which can be plainly heard at a distance of 5O feet from such device. A person shall be deemed to be "playing" such device if he or she either owns the device or exercises control thereof, or both. The term "yelling" shall mean the verbal expression by a person at such volume as to make such expression clearly understandable at a distance of 50 feet from such person.
They do seem to prohibit.
I also just got off the phone with the Town's attorney John Eller 434-369-5661, he isn't a respectful fella imho... and that's being polite (I'll be sure to record any future conversations and post them if the need arises).
I tried to inform Mr Eller of 15.2-915 but once I notified him that a town ordcance was out dated with state law he stated:
Mr Eller-" So, you want to carry guns in town parks!"
Me -Well Sir, state law allows guns to be carried.
Mr. Eller- "Well go ahead then!!!!!"
And he hung up.
So, if anyone contacts Mr Eller be sure to have you voice recorder running.
Someone from the area should really take the bull by the horns and follow through as Mr Eller had no interest in dealing with me as a non resident of the area.
Precisely why the preemption statute needs some teeth in it. :banghead:
Yes, the GA needs to act on this...
I fear that someone will one try to arrest someone unlawfully for one of these outdated County/Town codes and the person will excercise their rights not to be unlawfully arrested.
Don't forget it was the Second Circuit I believe that recently ruled LEOs are protected when they arrest for invalid ordinances, because they have no way to know they are invalid.Yes, the GA needs to act on this...
I fear that someone will try to arrest someone unlawfully for one of these outdated County/Town codes and the person will excercise their rights not to be unlawfully arrested.
It appears you misunderstood my meaning. I will not elaborate.Don't forget it was the Second Circuit I believe that recently ruled LEOs are protected when they arrest for invalid ordinances, because they have no way to know they are invalid.
That renders a part of 15.2-915 meaningless. We really need to start litigating these cases.
In your case, I would go over the attorney's head to the council or supervisors. It should be clear that you are trying to eliminate their exposure to litigation, but some people are too thick-headed to see when someone is trying to do them a favor.
TFred
I got your meaning, but what I'm saying is that with the precedent (even though non-binding to the 4th circuit) set by the 2nd, there may very well soon be no such thing as the protection afforded to the citizen in the circumstance of which you are thinking.It appears you misunderstood my meaning. I will not elaborate.
However, I agree 15.2-915 needs civil/criminal penalties attached!!!!
I'm willing to contact my home town of Altavista, whose code states:
Sec. 50-4. - Acts prohibited in town parks.
(a)
It shall be unlawful for any person to commit or attempt to commit any of the following acts while on the premises of Shreve Park, Staunton Riverboat Park and all other parks in the town: archery, climbing on waterwheel or wading in the fountain (in Shreve Park), damaging signs, equipment or facilities, golf practice, possession of firearms of any type....
As it happens, I'll be visiting their parks next weekend. I know this may seem paranoid, but Virginia 15.2.915 makes the above ordinance invalid, correct?
Would it be of help to have a copy of the VA statute in case I'm confronted by an LEO?
Thanks,
Dave
Thank You Mr. H for bringing this issue up to our attention. We have been in the process of changing/revising several ordinances due to revisions of Va. State Law. I have forward your concern to the Town Attorney and I can assure you this issue will be resolved.
If I can be of any further assistance to you, please don’t hesitate to contact me.
Clay W. Hamilton
Chief of Police, Altavista P.D.
Dear Chief Hamilton,
It appears that the Town of AltaVista has an out dated code with referencing the possession of firearms in town parks.
http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=13455
Sec. 50-4. - Acts prohibited in town parks.
(a)
It shall be unlawful for any person to commit or attempt to commit any of the following acts while on the premises of Shreve Park, Staunton Riverboat Park and all other parks in the town: archery, climbing on waterwheel or wading in the fountain (in Shreve Park), damaging signs, equipment or facilities, golf practice, possession of firearms of any type, horseback riding, littering, use of motorized vehicles of any type except on paved roadways and parking lots, rock throwing, yelling obscenities and/or profane or vulgar language, or playing radios, phonographs, tape players, CD players or other mechanical devices at a level which can be plainly heard at a distance of 5O feet from such device. A person shall be deemed to be "playing" such device if he or she either owns the device or exercises control thereof, or both. The term "yelling" shall mean the verbal expression by a person at such volume as to make such expression clearly understandable at a distance of 50 feet from such person.
Unless such described acts are prohibited specifically in other sections of this Code, any person violating the provisions of this section shall be deemed to be trespassing and shall be guilty of a class 1 misdemeanor.
(Code 1968, § 13-15)
If you would reference state code 15.2-915;
http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/15.2-915.HTM
§ 15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.
A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by § 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute.
B. Any local ordinance, resolution or motion adopted prior to the effective date of this act governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, other than those expressly authorized by statute, is invalid.
C. In addition to any other relief provided, the court may award reasonable attorney fees, expenses, and court costs to any person, group, or entity that prevails in an action challenging (i) an ordinance, resolution, or motion as being in conflict with this section or (ii) an administrative action taken in bad faith as being in conflict with this section.
(1987, c. 629, § 15.1-29.15; 1988, c. 392; 1997, cc. 550, 587; 2002, c. 484; 2003, c. 943; 2004, cc. 837, 923; 2009, cc. 735, 772.)
I tried to politely bring this matter to the town's attorney Mr. John Eller this morning via a phone call but Mr. Eller wasn't interested in listening and hung up.
I sincerely hope you will advise the proper folks and have this town ordinance that is contrary to state law fixed/removed.
I'd also appreciate it if you would notify me with what action is to be taken to correct.
Sincerely,
Marco
Subject: Altavista Code 50-4
From: ellaws@aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 13:00:34 -0400
I reviewed the section and it does contain a prohibition against firearms in the park. I was aware of 15.2-915 and thought we had previously removed from our code all such prohibitions. This one slipped through. We are doing an annual revision of code sections changed by acts of the General Assembly in June and the firearm prohibition will be removed. As you are obviously well aware, such prohibitions in effect when 15.2-915 was enacted are declared invalid by 915, anyway. Our Chief of Police, who gave me your email address, tells me that our police have not been enforcing any firearm regulations in the park. Thus, as I told you, you are free to bring your guns into our park at any time. Bring some today if you like.
J. Johnson Eller, Jr.
Attorney at Law
P.O. Box 209
712 Main Street
Altavista, VA 24517
(434) 369-5661
(434) 369-5663 Fax
--snip--
The town's attorney has serious issues.